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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of them look on

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the sa

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my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy joining me on

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the podcast this week is ufo researcher

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and author chris rutkowski chris welcome

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to the podcast glad to be here thanks

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and i did say that correctly didn't know

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your surname

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radkowski

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rockowski got that wrong already but

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yeah chris rockowski we'll put that one

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in properly chris um listen it's been

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good to speak to you we uh i've been

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looking forward to this after i spoke to

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daniel otis and we talked about the 20

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years of canadian government's uh

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declassifications you were a part of

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that you were mentioned in daniel's vice

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article and we're going to get to that

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but first off um do you mind telling the

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listeners a little bit about your own

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background and growing up what were your

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kind of first memories of ufos

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hmm

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well um

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my background is i've got a

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degree in astronomy and a degree in

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education

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uh i

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try to make science understandable to

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the common person

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i'm currently a science writer uh i work

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for university uh to sort of bring some

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of the research down to earth so to

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speak in terms of ufos

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uh back in the 1970s yes i'm that old

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there had been a number of flaps and

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waves in canada actually around the

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world

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and uh

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i was curious when i started uh in my

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astronomy classes at the university

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because there were ufo reports coming in

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all the time to the department uh common

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people were calling in and wanting to

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talk to an astronomer about what they

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were seeing however my astronomy

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professors were not all that crazy about

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ufos they thought it was all nonsense

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and couldn't be bothered it was a waste

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of their time

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and since i was in their offices offices

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uh quite often

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and the calls were coming and i

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suggested off-handedly that you know i

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could take the calls for them my little

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carol where i studied was right around

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the corner

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and i could take the calls and talk to

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the people that would free their time up

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they said sure and next thing i know i

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found myself talking to

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people all uh all around the countryside

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who had seen ufos

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i went out uh to their uh their farms

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their homes

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um talking with them uh and finding out

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that for the most part they were honest

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misidentifications uh things that you

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know like

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some stars and aircraft and so forth

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but there were some cases that were

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puzzling i i you know this wasn't a

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plane this wasn't a star i don't know

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what it was and left it at that

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and uh about a year and a half or so

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later

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one thing that was common within the

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astronomy department or actually within

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the physics department

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was that there would be departmental

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meetings and presentations every friday

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afternoon kind of to unwind and somebody

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cancelled and my professor said well why

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don't you let chris talk about the ufos

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that he's been hearing from people about

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so i said sure

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and word got around i was going to be

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giving this presentation and the next

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thing i know i got a note saying

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that the presentation has been moved

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from the departmental boardroom to the

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largest lecture hall on campus which is

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about 500 seats

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and the public had been invited

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and i found myself

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talking about ufos

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uh and became the ufo expert on campus

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and uh soon

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i was asked to write about what i had

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heard

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and uh uh do more and more television

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appearances and so forth and

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now it sort of took on the rep of the

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so you said that the professors weren't

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necessarily all that crazy about ufos

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and the idea of it but

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i take it there was quite a popularity

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for the subject amongst your your kind

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of fellow students if that many people

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were interested was that the kind of

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feeling you got from them

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well students in the general public

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certainly uh there this was uh very

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common uh there is as i mentioned of

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sort of a flap going on

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in our area at the time

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where many many people had been

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reporting to see ufos as about the mid

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1970s or so

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and uh

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it was very common for people to uh to

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want to talk with somebody and the fact

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that i was willing to listen uh really

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encouraged people to uh to be a little

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more open and and gave them confidence

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in talking with me about what they had

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and how did that study of astronomy link

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in with your interest in ufos was that

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the reason that you went into astronomy

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or was it something that just went kind

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of nicely hand in hand

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so i have to say i was interested in

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astronomy i i grew up uh you know

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watching the uh the apollo uh landings

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uh and uh even before that i remember my

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parents sitting me in front of a

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television set a black and white

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television set watching john glenn and

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mercury uh

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rockets that type of thing so i was

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fascinated with space

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um and and it was quite interesting that

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that astronomers are not necessarily the

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best people to

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study ufos because they're really good

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about things that are very far away

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but because uh most ufos are seen

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relatively close to the to the witness

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in some cases just a matter of

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uh you know

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several meters away

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that's not really the domain of

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astronomers whatsoever but the topic you

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know because a lot of people assume that

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uh ufos may have something to do with

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aliens and extraterrestrials

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uh that is the domain of the astronomers

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and my background in astronomy um gives

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me the uh

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the the training that allows me to sort

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out things like stars and planets and

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uh and other astronomical objects from

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the typical observation but also um the

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the knowledge that you know the the

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stars are very far away and if there's

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some planets out there with

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extraterrestrial life those are very far

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away and i even took some training and

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advanced propulsion uh through some

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engineering uh courses

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and you know it it allows me to converse

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with some authority uh on you know the

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possibility of extraterrestrial life and

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whether

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things can actually travel here from

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now at what point in your life was it

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was in college university or afterwards

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did this go from being somewhat of a

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hobby to a really serious part of your

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well um

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i guess it's sort of

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blossomed uh

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from the the time i i uh started doing

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more writing

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um i uh started putting out a uh

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euphosine

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uh called the swamp gas journal to uh to

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talk about uh some of what i had heard

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and found there's a willing audience for

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that

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i began to enter into correspondence

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with other ufologists literally around

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the world

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um and

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um i eventually started writing books i

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think my first book was out sometime in

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the um

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uh i can't i think my first book came

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out in the late 80s early 90s

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uh and since then i i have my 10th book

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on ufos and related phenomena coming out

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sometime over the next few months

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and uh it it

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it's a way of

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sharing my my experience what i've

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learned about

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the subject with other people and there

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is a i think a

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willing audience for that there's a lot

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of bad information out there and i try

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to cut through some of that using some

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scientific methodology

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but also at the same time listening and

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trying to understand what people are

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talking about not dismissing things out

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of hand like like debunkers or skeptics

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but um i have to say i do bring a a

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rather skeptical eye to this more of a

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doubting thomas but i'm very open-minded

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and

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don't know about some of the uh the

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things that people are seeing and i

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think we need more data and more

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research and that's what i advocate but

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because of my

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association with science

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i sometimes find myself as a liaison

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between

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the scientists and

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the lay person

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to try and bridge the gap because i find

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that there's sometimes quite quite a

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chasm rather than just a gap and

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i think it's important that

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scientists often dismiss the subject off

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offhandedly

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and yet there is a growing body of

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scientists who are willing to talk about

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this actually i was fortunate to have a

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number of uh

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professors

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uh over the years who

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encouraged me and would actually sit

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down and talk with me uh about some of

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the ideas that i had about ufos and uh

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they're actually quite open-minded and

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assisted me in in many ways and i guess

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1970s and 80s i got to know some of the

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major figures alan heineck

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and

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stan friedman they both spent time at my

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home

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and i

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met with them at various meetings and

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conferences

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and

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it was fascinating to to learn from them

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uh at the same way that uh

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that some people now are learning in

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now i've seen you mention i read in one

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of your interviews it was an article

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that the

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canada was quite open in its

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investigation of ufos with the royal

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canadian air force royal canadian

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mounted police and the national research

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council all cooperating till around 1995

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and then things moved to transport

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canada what happened at that time that

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things moved over to that sort of one

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organization and how did it change the

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reporting of of ufos hmm

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that's a good question the um

284
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:01,440
flying saucers uh had been investigated

285
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,640
by uh

286
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:04,000
um

287
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:06,560
the royal canadian air force uh from

288
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:08,560
about well i guess from the 40s into the

289
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:10,079
50s

290
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:12,079
and then somewhere around the 60s they

291
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,320
wanted to get out of the flying saucer

292
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:16,000
business this paralleled what was going

293
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,480
on in the united states

294
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:19,920
and

295
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:22,000
there was a discussion at a high level

296
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:23,600
of government to transfer the

297
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:25,360
responsibility for this over to the

298
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:28,079
national research council

299
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:31,120
which is sort of canada's national

300
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:34,959
government-run uh science

301
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:37,839
center in science uh body

302
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:39,680
and they did so with the understanding

303
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:40,640
that

304
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:41,440
uh

305
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:43,519
in the opinion of these scientists a lot

306
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:45,760
of the ufos that are being reported are

307
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:48,000
meteors and fireballs chunks of comets

308
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,200
and so forth

309
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:52,160
and there was a a

310
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:53,920
series of researchers who were

311
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:56,079
fascinated with meteoritics trying to to

312
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:58,560
get a hold of as many meteorites on the

313
00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:00,480
ground as possible and the theory was

314
00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:02,640
that if somebody reported a ufo that

315
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,240
turned out to be a

316
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:06,560
meteor or a fireball

317
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:09,200
you could probably find the meteorite on

318
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,720
the ground that was responsible for

319
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:12,720
creating that ufo if you had enough

320
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:15,120
reports so the national research council

321
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:16,880
worked with the

322
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,440
royal canadian mounted police

323
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,040
which of course had

324
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:23,680
departments right across the country

325
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:25,600
and the royal canadian mounted police

326
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:27,680
would actually investigate ufo reports

327
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,519
on behalf of the government on behalf of

328
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:31,600
the national research council

329
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:34,480
so that meteorites could be found

330
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:35,839
now

331
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,600
first of all they did actually find some

332
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,360
meteorites this way

333
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:41,200
but a lot of the ufo reports that the

334
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,079
rcmp investigated were not meteors or

335
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,399
fireballs and they were something else

336
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:48,639
but they were called non-meteoric

337
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:51,519
objects or non-meteoric incidents

338
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,399
and there's a separate file for that and

339
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,639
it was the duty of an administrative

340
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:58,160
assistant in the national research

341
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,040
council in ottawa to duly take the phone

342
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:04,240
calls take the teletypes at that time

343
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:07,440
and the letters um and uh filed them and

344
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,959
and there was a very minimal

345
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:10,560
investigation because these things were

346
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,560
not of interest to the national research

347
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:13,920
council at all

348
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,160
and filed them away in a drawer in a

349
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:17,760
filing cabinet they were then

350
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,839
transferred to the national library of

351
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:21,120
canada

352
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,240
where they kind of remained

353
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:26,160
and what happened was that

354
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:26,959
in

355
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:32,069
the

356
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:33,600
national research council meteoritics

357
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:34,560
division

358
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,839
was was sort of um disbanded because the

359
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,519
the national research council was more

360
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,600
interested in the canadian space agency

361
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:42,959
side they actually were responsible for

362
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,880
creating the canadarm that's on that was

363
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,399
on the space shuttle and

364
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,720
uh and now on the station

365
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,560
uh so they were getting out of that and

366
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:52,480
yet the ufo reports were still coming in

367
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:55,440
from the public and from um military and

368
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:57,279
police and so forth

369
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,959
um so they had to get out of that and

370
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,399
there was actually a line item in their

371
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:02,560
budget for this administrative assistant

372
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,760
to do so

373
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:05,920
uh so they wanted to get to stop that

374
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:08,639
and i happened to be in ottawa doing

375
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:09,680
some

376
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,839
and ended up speaking with a number of

377
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,120
people from the national research

378
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,959
council and one person in particular his

379
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:18,560
name was peter millman

380
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:21,040
uh who was uh involved in

381
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,079
some of the ufo work as a as a skeptic

382
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,720
and a debunker of course

383
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,399
and uh he said i don't know what we're

384
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:29,680
going to do with all these reports that

385
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,760
continually come in and i said well you

386
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:33,600
can always give them to me

387
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:36,240
sort of half jokingly

388
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:42,550
and then somewhere around 1995 the rcmp

389
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:43,839
and

390
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,079
the nationalist council research council

391
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:47,839
terminated their agreement

392
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:50,399
and shifted away and then somewhere in

393
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,519
about

394
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,079
the year 2000

395
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:57,040
i began receiving the ufo reports that

396
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,560
people were submitting to the government

397
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:03,360
and i continued to receive them

398
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:09,910
now how have you seen the canadian

399
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,040
public's attitude change towards ufos

400
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,639
over the years because you're saying

401
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,920
you've you've been involved now since

402
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:18,160
the 70s in this subject and with the

403
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:20,160
books you know like i say with that

404
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:21,680
relationship you've had with the

405
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:24,079
investigations and up until now almost

406
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,000
recently getting those reports have you

407
00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:28,639
seen a massive shift in the general way

408
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,949
um i'd have to say there have been some

409
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:36,399
shifts some some different

410
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,760
characteristics one of the things i

411
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:39,279
began doing

412
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:40,639
as i got further involved in the

413
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:43,600
research was uh in the late 1980s i

414
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,079
started collecting as many ufo reports

415
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,480
from across canada as possible to try

416
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,399
and get a better picture of what

417
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,560
was really being seen

418
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:54,240
because there hadn't really been a a

419
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,240
good study of what what the the

420
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:58,720
characteristics of uh ufo sightings

421
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,000
really were i mean we could you could

422
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:01,920
see what was on reported on the news on

423
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:03,920
television or in the tabloid

424
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,040
uh newspapers and and some magazines but

425
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,440
what were people really reporting and i

426
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:11,040
had a sample of that because i had

427
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,480
access to

428
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:14,079
some of the national research council

429
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,600
reports i had been in ottawa going

430
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:17,120
through the national library i knew what

431
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:20,720
a ufo report really looked like

432
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,000
and uh alan heineck and uh stan freedom

433
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:26,320
both encouraged me to to pursue this a

434
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,240
little bit more so i i created what was

435
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,800
called the canadian ufo survey

436
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:33,839
um and i collected uh you know working

437
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:36,160
with my colleagues and other researchers

438
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:37,600
and you know adding in the government

439
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:40,560
reports as well a snapshot every year of

440
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,360
what uh ufo sightings look like every

441
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,360
year so they're in the first year i

442
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,759
think they're only about 150 or so

443
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:48,800
reports

444
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:49,600
that

445
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,560
point where

446
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:56,240
somewhere in the

447
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:57,040
uh

448
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,920
after the year 2000

449
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,759
we're starting to get somewhere around 1

450
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:04,400
000 ufo reports every year in canada

451
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,240
from all sources

452
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:08,559
and uh that remained fairly uh

453
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,120
significant fairly consistent

454
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,799
until

455
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,640
probably a few about five years ago when

456
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,959
it started to decline somewhat and of

457
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:18,319
course the pandemic just threw

458
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,600
everything off but

459
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,760
um during those years we saw things like

460
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,679
um the the shape the

461
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:26,240
characteristics of the the reported ufos

462
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:27,600
changed from

463
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,200
uh the disc to triangles to more

464
00:17:34,890 --> 00:17:33,120
just simply lights and and balls of

465
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,900
light in the sky

466
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:37,039
[Music]

467
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,000
people started being

468
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,640
more willing i think to talk about their

469
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,480
experiences

470
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,320
although they're still quite hesitant to

471
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,919
report i mean there have been some

472
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,679
studies done on

473
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,440
uh on polling and surveys of the

474
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:53,440
canadian public as there have been in

475
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,799
other countries

476
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:56,320
um in fact we

477
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,679
uh conducted a poll of uh canadians on

478
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:01,679
their beliefs and ufos

479
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,919
which aligned very well with other

480
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,000
polling companies around the world like

481
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,919
gallup and north america and

482
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:09,440
um

483
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:12,880
and a few others where about 10 of the

484
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:14,799
the population believe that they've seen

485
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:17,600
a ufo and that percentage actually has

486
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,400
remained fairly consistent

487
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:22,320
across the decades which is quite

488
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:23,679
interesting because it suggests there's

489
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,160
a very persistent uh

490
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,400
belief

491
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:30,480
and the characteristics of themselves of

492
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:33,039
the ufos themselves i mentioned the

493
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:34,160
shape

494
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,240
color has uh you know

495
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,640
changed from oranges and reds to more

496
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,640
just a uniform white

497
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,640
but one thing that has always come out

498
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,400
was that it's usually not just one

499
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,880
person who reports seeing the ufo it's

500
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,480
usually somebody who's with another

501
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,640
person so in other words somebody sees

502
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,280
the ufo and elbows the person next to

503
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,520
him says hey do you see what i see

504
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:57,520
and that's quite interesting because it

505
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:59,039
it suggests that

506
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,720
uh it's not just one person's

507
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:02,720
imagination it suggests that there's two

508
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,000
people who are sharing the experience so

509
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:08,320
by studying the actual data what people

510
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,160
really are reporting and seeing and

511
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:12,400
that's something that's possibly lost in

512
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,799
ufology today uh you do get a better

513
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,400
sense of what the phenomenon really

514
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,590
do you think there's an a chance then

515
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:23,600
that the numbers of true

516
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,600
sightings could be even higher that if

517
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:27,360
you're with someone you've got that

518
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,679
second source to say i did see this you

519
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,120
know you're looking at what i'm looking

520
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,600
at but if i'm out on my own

521
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:35,600
i'm less likely to report that because

522
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:38,160
it's just me oh so you saw on your own

523
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,400
yep anyone else nope got any pictures or

524
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,520
videos nope so you tend not to report it

525
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,679
so do you think the true number what 10

526
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,160
percent of canadians report seeing a ufo

527
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,840
what what could that true percentage

528
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:51,600
look like do you think

529
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:53,440
well uh you know we actually have asked

530
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:55,520
that question too of the of the people

531
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:59,600
who had seen a ufo uh we also asked did

532
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:02,000
you report it and and of course this

533
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:04,080
number has been coming out of polls uh i

534
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:05,600
mean even stanton friedman would pull

535
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:07,440
his audiences for example on the same

536
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,160
thing

537
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:10,559
uh all those with uh who've seen a ufo

538
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:12,559
raise your hands now of those of you who

539
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,280
raised your hands did you report it

540
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,760
and only about five to ten percent of

541
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:18,640
them

542
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:21,440
actually reported it so we're probably

543
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,919
missing at least 90 percent of all the

544
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,880
uh

545
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:26,640
the ufo sightings that are they're

546
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,590
have you had your own sightings chris

547
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:34,960
you know no

548
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,440
but i'll have a little asterisk there

549
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:39,600
that i've been out to many places right

550
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:41,840
across canada and the united states

551
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,400
um to places where ufo hot spots were

552
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:46,080
never saw anything

553
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,240
but when i was in ottawa going through

554
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,320
the uh the uh

555
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,559
the national library uh and its files of

556
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:54,799
ufos

557
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,000
uh i came across my own ufo report which

558
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,240
i had completely forgotten about because

559
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,039
it was in um

560
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
i'm guessing 1980

561
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:08,799
something 1881 where i was coming home

562
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,440
from investigating some ufos and i saw a

563
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,360
light in the sky

564
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:16,400
and i thought oh you know that you know

565
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:19,360
this is how ufo reports are generated

566
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:21,120
and i watched it for a while and it was

567
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:21,919
a

568
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,840
nobody followed up with me nobody got

569
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:43,440
back to me

570
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,000
but then when i was going through the uh

571
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:48,960
the historical cases i came across a

572
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:52,159
report from chris rutkowski in the file

573
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,600
and uh

574
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,200
it you know it verifies what i had

575
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:56,960
suspected that nothing was being done

576
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,840
with the ufo sightings because

577
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,799
no one in the government was

578
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:02,880
particularly interested in this this

579
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:10,230
and on those files that have just been

580
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,159
released recently there was the 20 years

581
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,400
worth of ufo files

582
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:15,760
you mentioned before that you had a

583
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,679
relationship that you were receiving

584
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:19,919
these reports almost

585
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,960
directly there was a and a note to send

586
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,159
them on to you

587
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,320
essentially how exactly again did that

588
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:28,320
come about that you said you jokingly

589
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:30,159
said you know well just send them to me

590
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:31,760
but i'm sure anyone else trying that on

591
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:34,080
with any kind of official bodies that

592
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,520
they wouldn't get that far was there

593
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,799
anything else in the process that

594
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,720
happened that you end up getting all

595
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,480
these reports

596
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:42,559
well as i mentioned i was in the

597
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,840
national research council at the

598
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:46,000
herzberg institute for astrophysics

599
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:49,440
doing research i was a known entity

600
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,559
and

601
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:53,039
you know i i was still at university

602
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,640
conducting research

603
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:56,240
and i had an interest in this and i was

604
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,520
speaking to the individuals who were

605
00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:59,280
getting the ufo reports and that there

606
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:02,320
was a an impetus at that time to for the

607
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:06,159
government to uh to slough off the ufo

608
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:09,120
business onto somebody else curiously

609
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:10,640
um

610
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:12,880
this actually happened uh two previous

611
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:15,520
times in the 1960s

612
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,679
uh a ufo researcher civilian ufo

613
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,320
researcher named bill allen

614
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,640
was asked by the government to uh

615
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,520
investigate ufos on their behalf and

616
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:27,280
pass along any information if they had

617
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,760
uh you know anything interesting uh was

618
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:31,200
reported to them

619
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,799
um and then another civilian

620
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:35,039
investigator by the name of arthur bray

621
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:38,480
whose own archives and files are at the

622
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,559
university of ottawa now

623
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:42,799
also got involved and had a relationship

624
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,360
with the government of canada

625
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:47,440
and so there's kind of a history of the

626
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,120
government of canada selecting a few

627
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,880
people here and there

628
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,880
to assist them in this

629
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:54,480
in their research because they they

630
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:58,000
really didn't have the expertise

631
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,039
and the the interest in the subject so

632
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:03,200
they were more than glad

633
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:06,159
when i came along and uh

634
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:08,880
and you know i half jokingly suggested

635
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:11,840
they could send the reports to me

636
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:13,520
and i took that responsibility quite

637
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:15,919
seriously despite the the fact i had i

638
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:17,840
had said it partly in jest but i was

639
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,240
fascinated to see exactly what was being

640
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:22,799
reported and

641
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,000
by taking it seriously i realized i was

642
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,480
getting uh information from witnesses

643
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:31,039
whose names and and

644
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:32,400
phone numbers and addresses were

645
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,159
confidential and uh took that

646
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:36,799
responsibility uh quite seriously uh

647
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,080
that i uh i was trusted

648
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:43,200
and uh i wasn't gonna dash off to the

649
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:46,480
daily mail or the new york times

650
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:48,799
waving ufo reports

651
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:50,320
shouting the aliens are here or anything

652
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:51,679
like that i wanted to know from a

653
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:53,760
scientific point of view what was being

654
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:54,559
seen

655
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,320
and the vast majority of the reports i

656
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:58,400
was getting and i have to say

657
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:01,200
there's not that many really out of

658
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,799
uh the 1 000 cases every year

659
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,400
in canada

660
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:08,320
there couldn't have been more than a

661
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,919
dozen or so

662
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:11,679
that came through government sources so

663
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,760
it was a very small percentage but of

664
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:15,600
the ones that came in and you can see

665
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:18,400
this by looking at the uh the cases that

666
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:19,679
daniel otis

667
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:22,000
uh uh obtained

668
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:23,760
for the most part they were stars

669
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:26,159
planets aircraft kites

670
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,200
balloons and and so forth uh the typical

671
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,799
uh report that i would get would be

672
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:32,159
sometimes uh

673
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,120
uh an email from uh uh somebody in

674
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,120
national defense saying we received a

675
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,679
report from the canadian forces base at

676
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:42,240
trenton for example from a civilian who

677
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,600
said that

678
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,080
that she watched uh

679
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:48,320
a stationary star-like light for three

680
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,960
or four hours hanging in the sky

681
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,799
and uh you know

682
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,720
you know that certainly in the case i

683
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,240
just mentioned you know sounds like a

684
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:58,080
star planet and i would verify that it

685
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:59,600
certainly was so

686
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:01,039
uh the most of the

687
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:02,559
incidents weren't all that interesting

688
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:04,720
and if you go through

689
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,240
um the 290 pages that were said to be

690
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:10,080
disclosed and given and released by the

691
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,200
government

692
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,200
they had already been public before for

693
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,760
the most part in fact

694
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:17,840
of the 290

695
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:20,720
pages of documents

696
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,640
30 of them were a list of 500 cases that

697
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:26,960
came from transport canada of pilot

698
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:30,400
incident reports which all were public

699
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:31,360
and

700
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:35,679
the other

701
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:38,640
260 pages there are only a hundred and i

702
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,799
think i count 115

703
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:43,200
separate reports

704
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,240
and of those all but 13

705
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,559
were simply um

706
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:50,320
reports expanding on the ones that had

707
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:53,200
already been made public uh and of the

708
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:54,640
13

709
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,520
from

710
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:58,000
national defense and and uh and some

711
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,919
other uh uh

712
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:01,440
official sources

713
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:04,159
uh we had already had i think

714
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,120
ten or nine or ten of those so there are

715
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:09,200
only three or four that we hadn't seen

716
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,240
before

717
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,720
um so i mean daniel did a

718
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:14,640
fantastic job and he's been really good

719
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:16,640
since he broke onto the ufo scene a few

720
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:19,200
years ago of of being able to uh get

721
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:20,799
some uh

722
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,080
access to information requests filed and

723
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:26,480
obtaining documents but the ones that

724
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,440
came from this 290 page or 290 pages of

725
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:31,200
documents were really not that

726
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:32,320
interesting and they weren't really

727
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,200
disclosure at all because they had

728
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,720
already been public

729
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,559
and they were simply obtained through

730
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:40,080
access to information requests so that

731
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:42,000
to me that's not really disclosure

732
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:43,919
however what it does say

733
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:47,200
is that even that list of 500

734
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:49,360
cases that we had already known about

735
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,960
filed by pilots for the most part

736
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:55,039
suggest that

737
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:57,520
you know there are a lot of cases every

738
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,840
year of pilots reporting unusual objects

739
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,440
in the sky

740
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:03,760
and reporting them through air traffic

741
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,080
controllers through national defense and

742
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,480
and so forth and furthermore buried

743
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:11,520
within that are notes that norad

744
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:14,159
the the uh the defense system from

745
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,520
that canada

746
00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:18,320
is partnered in with the united states

747
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:21,760
um is actively uh involved is passed to

748
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:23,600
this information in some cases makes

749
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:26,960
reports themselves so it it shows that

750
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:28,159
there is

751
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:32,080
uh some uh some interest and some

752
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,520
um

753
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,200
not necessarily investigation because

754
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:36,799
i'm not convinced that there's a lot of

755
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,799
investigation going on but there is a

756
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:40,080
lot of work being

757
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:43,760
being curious about the the subject

758
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,909
now you mentioned that canadian pilots

759
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:52,320
reporting these objects as well

760
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:53,919
we have heard there are reports of you

761
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:56,960
know us navy um service men and women

762
00:29:01,990 --> 00:28:59,919
potentially having tic tacs 50 feet off

763
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:02,000
the wing of their planes at times now we

764
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,360
don't have the the proof of that

765
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,679
necessarily yet is there anything

766
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,080
potentially that sensational almost or

767
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:10,480
that makes you stop and read it twice

768
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:12,000
in terms of reporting that canadian

769
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:15,039
pilots are coming up with

770
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:16,559
well yeah i mean there are there are a

771
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:19,600
number of interesting uh reports um

772
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,240
uh we're just in the process of uh

773
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:24,880
finishing up the 2021 canadian ufo

774
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,080
survey not quite ready yet but very soon

775
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:30,720
uh which uh you know again compiles all

776
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:32,320
the cases in canada

777
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:34,240
uh that were uh that were reported and

778
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,679
some of the more interesting ones

779
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:37,600
include some pilot reports in fact

780
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,960
there's one if i'm

781
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:40,240
trying to remember off the top of my

782
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,080
head

783
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:45,120
of a pilot who was flying from alaska to

784
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:46,720
minneapolis

785
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,559
and was over

786
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:50,320
a part of canada hence it was made as a

787
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,669
and

788
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:58,480
the pilot uh radioed to air traffic

789
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,720
control can you tell me

790
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,919
what

791
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:03,600
is in the sky above us right now because

792
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,840
there's something that's that's uh above

793
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,360
us and we're flying at i think something

794
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:09,600
like 39 000 feet

795
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,960
and the air traffic control said no

796
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:12,640
there's nothing there

797
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:14,559
and the pilot said well i have no idea

798
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:16,720
what this is either so we have cases

799
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,080
like that

800
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,720
that are reported

801
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,640
and it suggests that pilots themselves

802
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:24,559
are seeing some curious things

803
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:25,840
and

804
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:28,320
one would imagine that pilots

805
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,120
with

806
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:31,679
many hours of training in some cases

807
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:34,000
tens of thousands of hours of

808
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:34,840
flight

809
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:37,600
um you know would know what's in the sky

810
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,000
now pilots do make mistakes and a lot of

811
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:42,159
uh debunkers make this point that's

812
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,520
absolutely true

813
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:45,919
i would also make the point that

814
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:48,159
uh pilots of airliners

815
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,600
uh

816
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,159
carrying you know hundreds of passengers

817
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,320
if they're reporting things that are

818
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:57,039
uh in the sky that they can't identify

819
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,120
that may pose a danger to uh air safety

820
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:03,919
uh furthermore some of the cases involve

821
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:06,720
radar detection and transponders that

822
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,960
seem to indicate things that are there

823
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,039
when there's nothing there if there's a

824
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,039
problem with the technology with the

825
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,200
equipment with the electronics that

826
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:17,840
implies a safety issue with regards to

827
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,200
air travel as well so i would suggest

828
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,919
that even if uh ufos are something

829
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,360
relatively

830
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,799
mundane

831
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:29,440
uh and not necessarily alien the fact

832
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,240
that

833
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,559
um you know if pilots are reporting

834
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,640
these things and uh there could be

835
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,080
something wrong with the equipment or

836
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,840
the you know things flying into the

837
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:40,320
flight paths of of airliners to me

838
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:42,640
that's worth investigating so

839
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,559
whether you believe ufos are alien or

840
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:46,399
not i think the subject is something

841
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,039
that should be taken more seriously and

842
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,799
reports should be investigated more

843
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:53,120
thoroughly at a higher level i think the

844
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:55,760
governments should governments not just

845
00:31:59,590 --> 00:31:57,279
united states and canada but certainly

846
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,600
britain and france and and others should

847
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:02,399
be taking a harder and closer look at

848
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,310
you mentioned you were receiving the

849
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:10,159
reports up until quite recently i

850
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,519
believe mid 2021 they sort of stopped

851
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:15,760
is that correct and if so do you think

852
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:17,360
that may be a sign that the canadian

853
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,880
government well they will have

854
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,120
appreciated no doubt what you've done

855
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,200
are taking this more in-house to take a

856
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:25,360
closer look at the subject

857
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:28,399
yeah as a matter of fact i um things

858
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:32,080
seem to uh to trickle down

859
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,440
in numbers

860
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,000
around the time that well people like

861
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,760
daniel otis

862
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,760
was actually filing

863
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,679
access information requests about ufos

864
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:43,679
now people have been filing these types

865
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:46,399
of requests all along but there seems to

866
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,200
be

867
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,640
you know when people are filing more and

868
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,320
more requests i think they have said

869
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,559
that the number of requests has risen

870
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,399
exponentially

871
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:56,399
but also because of the uh the interest

872
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:58,080
recently from the united states and i

873
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,440
think overall

874
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:01,360
at a higher level there's more of an

875
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,480
interest

876
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,720
and perhaps the government are taking a

877
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,039
higher interest and while

878
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:09,200
uh civilians have been feeling the role

879
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:12,080
of investigators for quite some time

880
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,039
uh you know even alan heineck

881
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,559
for example was

882
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,880
uh was technically a civilian

883
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,880
and after he left the air force he was

884
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,399
continuing with the center for ufo

885
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,440
studies and

886
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:25,600
was still heavily involved with ufos but

887
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,799
he was outside of the government

888
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:30,880
institutions after that point

889
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,279
so i think with the advent of

890
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,600
you know more interest in the subject

891
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,600
plus the fact that and rightly so i

892
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:41,600
think the government probably said well

893
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:44,240
why are we exactly sending ufo reports

894
00:33:47,669 --> 00:33:45,840
to a civilian and i actually have had

895
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:47,679
that that question

896
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:49,360
uh asked of me uh

897
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:50,720
years ago

898
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,120
by military officers

899
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,360
i think that's probably that

900
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:57,519
they are taking things a little more

901
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:59,840
seriously however i will point out that

902
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:01,679
there's an organization called nav

903
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:05,679
canada which is a civilian organization

904
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,840
which is actually the the

905
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,679
the institution

906
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,679
that is receiving ufo reports from

907
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:13,919
pilots that passes them along to

908
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,599
transport canada which is the government

909
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:17,839
institution in canada

910
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,399
nav canada may have an investigative

911
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:22,399
body and they're exempt from access to

912
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,000
information requests

913
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,679
i know a number of people are trying to

914
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:27,280
get access to those

915
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:29,440
uh cases and what remains to be seen

916
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:30,399
whether

917
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:37,030
you obviously mentioned uh just before

918
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:40,079
like the united states uh has been

919
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,879
quite

920
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:42,720
very much on the front foot in terms of

921
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,200
the ufo subject recently that can look

922
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,720
nefarious so it can look like a good

923
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,240
thing who knows depending on which side

924
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:50,879
of the conspiracy fence you fall down on

925
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:53,359
however what are your thoughts on the us

926
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:54,720
having a

927
00:34:58,950 --> 00:34:57,359
somewhat transparent ufo office in the

928
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,960
background what are your thoughts on

929
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:00,160
that

930
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,560
unlikely um canada has been far more

931
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,000
transparent than the united states in

932
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:08,400
fact after blue book we've had really no

933
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,839
information

934
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:11,200
about what's been going on in the united

935
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,839
states with regard to either civilian

936
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,839
reports to the government or military

937
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:17,839
reports to the government a few people

938
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:19,520
like paul dean and others have done a

939
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,960
tremendous job in locating reports uh

940
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:25,119
during those intervening years between

941
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:27,760
1970 and now but for the most part it's

942
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:29,760
been kind of a black hole whereas in

943
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,320
canada national research council reports

944
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:34,000
had been sent to the national library

945
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:36,880
and then after they finished in 1995 i

946
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,320
started getting them

947
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,880
myself and and i i will point out too

948
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:42,240
that i've been sharing

949
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:43,839
and posting a lot of the reports that

950
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:45,520
i've been getting through the government

951
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:48,160
um either on my own blog or in facebook

952
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:49,520
or uh sharing them with other

953
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,400
researchers directly so it's not like uh

954
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:54,160
those reports are disappearing in fact

955
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:55,520
i've been including them in the canadian

956
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,640
ufo survey every year so the information

957
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,640
that's contained is is still pretty

958
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:02,720
complete for canada but the united

959
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,520
states is another uh issue

960
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,000
and uh ever since we found out from the

961
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,000
new york times article that there was a

962
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:12,320
ufo program in the united states from

963
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:15,359
you know 2007 to 2012 or something like

964
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,160
that

965
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,960
and there probably is still a a program

966
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:20,960
going on

967
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,320
the fact that they've been very very

968
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,960
less than transparent very opaque

969
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,359
um suggests that we're not going to be

970
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:31,760
finding out very much anytime soon in

971
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:33,520
fact after the

972
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:36,800
uap task force issued its report

973
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,520
some time ago many months ago now

974
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,000
we really haven't got much information

975
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:44,320
john greenwald uh you know found the

976
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:46,880
declassified or somewhat declassified

977
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:47,839
version

978
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:50,160
uh very recently and

979
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:51,760
that's been made available and he's done

980
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:53,599
a tremendous job great for john to do

981
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,560
that

982
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,119
but we still don't have a a good handle

983
00:37:02,069 --> 00:36:59,680
on what's really been going on

984
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,079
and i have a lot of questions uh you

985
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,320
know we don't have details on the cases

986
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:06,480
that were referred to in

987
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:09,520
in that report um

988
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:11,040
i also have a question as to what the

989
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,880
reporting procedure is right now if a

990
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,480
civilian reports

991
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,240
wants to report a ufo in the united

992
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:18,079
states to uh the government there

993
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:19,760
doesn't seem to be a mechanism to do

994
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:22,560
that if a military pilot in

995
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,760
bismarck north dakota sees a ufo is

996
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:27,520
there actually a mechanism in place to

997
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,960
report that to the navy the air force

998
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:33,119
some other organization we simply don't

999
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,240
know

1000
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:36,880
and it's strange because blue book

1001
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:40,320
um was very effective because it had

1002
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:43,520
the ability to send directives to

1003
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,800
all uh american air force bases and

1004
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:48,079
other countries

1005
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,839
as well around the world with

1006
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:51,680
instructions on how to investigate and

1007
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:54,560
and could get its tentacles kind of all

1008
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,000
all around the world to try and get the

1009
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,560
ufo reports it was very effective and

1010
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,480
it's hard to imagine that even though

1011
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:03,280
according to the task force report

1012
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,680
they it said that there is no mechanism

1013
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,160
in place to do so

1014
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:10,240
that's very puzzling because

1015
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:12,400
in canada

1016
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:15,920
there is a mechanism in fact

1017
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,560
there are reports sent to me from norad

1018
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,160
from the canadian side certainly and

1019
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,560
certainly passed on to the united states

1020
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:26,640
in fact there was even back when faxes

1021
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:28,320
were a thing

1022
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:30,800
there was a fax cover sheet that was

1023
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,280
clearly labeled ufo report

1024
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,160
that accompanied the ufo reports

1025
00:38:41,349 --> 00:38:38,400
from uh that were passed through norad

1026
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:41,359
so somebody was getting these cases and

1027
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:45,520
so for the uap task force to have this

1028
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,720
comment that

1029
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,720
there is no mechanism in place i didn't

1030
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:50,960
know exactly how to go about it that

1031
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,200
sounds a little strange to me and

1032
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:56,160
and uh that implies that there's much

1033
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:58,880
less transparency than than there should

1034
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:04,790
as we record this it's the 27th of march

1035
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:07,839
and today was the last day that the

1036
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,040
mandated

1037
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,920
90-day update was due for congress so

1038
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:14,160
there should have been that briefing

1039
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:15,599
report whatever it was going to be in

1040
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:17,359
the background obviously classified it

1041
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,880
wasn't anything that should be expected

1042
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:21,520
to to be made public but if there's any

1043
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,440
chance of anything coming out from that

1044
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:24,960
we would hope to hear or see something

1045
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:26,960
in the next week or two but highly

1046
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,040
unlikely however we can always live in

1047
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,040
hope i suppose um

1048
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,119
do you hope to see

1049
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:35,520
canada and the united states at least

1050
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:37,119
given their proximity to each other

1051
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:39,599
given that norad relationship work

1052
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,640
closely on the ufo issue

1053
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,320
well i would hope so

1054
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,240
um

1055
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:48,320
because of the uh the close association

1056
00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:50,880
we have there's many cases on record

1057
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:54,240
uh where there are joint um

1058
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:56,960
uh

1059
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,520
by canada and the united states

1060
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,000
involving ufos there was a a famous case

1061
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,640
in falcon bridge ontario where

1062
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,440
uh some ufos were seen by some radar

1063
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:12,240
personnel and people on the ground at

1064
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:15,839
a canadian forces base in ontario

1065
00:40:18,310 --> 00:40:16,800
and

1066
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:18,320
some air force jets from the united

1067
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,839
states

1068
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:22,400
were sent to fly over the area to

1069
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,599
investigate

1070
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,000
so there we know that there had been

1071
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,240
this cooperation in the past

1072
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,960
uh there's no question that canada does

1073
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,400
work closely

1074
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:34,560
uh with the united states and and always

1075
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:37,200
has in fact some of the early cases

1076
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,960
that we have in canada come from the

1077
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:41,119
united states air force bases

1078
00:40:44,310 --> 00:40:43,359
that were on canadian soil

1079
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:44,320
um

1080
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,240
and

1081
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:48,079
we do know there was a case so i'm

1082
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:49,680
trying to remember now whether it was

1083
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:53,760
seven eight nine years ago now of a uh

1084
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:56,079
of a united states air force refueling

1085
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:57,040
mission

1086
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:00,400
um in northern canada uh where the uh

1087
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:03,040
somebody on board had reported a ufo and

1088
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,560
because it was on canadian soil that's

1089
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:06,640
how we've we found out about it but it

1090
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:08,079
was an american

1091
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:11,599
uh uh crab air

1092
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:12,800
aircraft that

1093
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:15,359
reported it so that must have gone into

1094
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,200
uh some sort of american repository

1095
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,440
so there is some cooperation we don't

1096
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:23,599
know the the level to which it might be

1097
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:25,119
existing but

1098
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:28,400
uh we we assume it's there

1099
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,599
breaking news

1100
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:31,359
just before we get to listener questions

1101
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,079
chris i want to ask what do you think

1102
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,160
right now given your expertise and your

1103
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:38,480
decades of research is the best

1104
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:41,119
explanation or explanations for the

1105
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:46,630
well i mean we have to say at the outset

1106
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:49,520
that most cases uh either have

1107
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:51,119
explanations or we don't have enough

1108
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:53,119
information for explanations in fact the

1109
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,359
task force report we're referring to

1110
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:58,079
people make a big deal about the 143

1111
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,400
cases or something

1112
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,160
that were unexplained that's actually

1113
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:04,560
not what the task force says it says

1114
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:05,839
they simply didn't have enough

1115
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:07,040
information

1116
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:10,079
uh to give a full explanation for all

1117
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:11,680
except one case which they determined

1118
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:14,640
was definitely a deflating balloon

1119
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,119
the other 443

1120
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,079
were not unexplained as some people say

1121
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,400
they are actually simply uh they

1122
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,800
couldn't pinpoint an exact explanation

1123
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,240
for what it was oh they certainly had

1124
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:29,200
their their uh their ideas that's

1125
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,640
similar to what we have for the bulk of

1126
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:33,280
ufo data every year the canadian ufo

1127
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,319
survey

1128
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,000
looks at us as i mentioned you know

1129
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:38,960
somewhere around 1 000 cases i'll give

1130
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:40,800
you a spoiler alert it's much lower than

1131
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:43,760
that for 2021

1132
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:44,960
but

1133
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,200
of those a very small percentage are

1134
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,280
what we call high quality unknowns the

1135
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,359
vast majority either have possible

1136
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,359
explanations insufficient information or

1137
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:56,319
in fact explanations

1138
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:58,960
and so if you apply that across the

1139
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:01,359
board um you do end up with a fairly

1140
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,160
significant number um

1141
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,480
in uh in the canadian ufo survey where

1142
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,280
some somewhere around 23 000 separate

1143
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,440
ufo reports now

1144
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:13,040
over the past

1145
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,760
30 years

1146
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:17,440
and

1147
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:20,000
even if let's say one percent of all

1148
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:23,200
those are high quality unknown cases

1149
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,079
it adds up to uh to dozens and dozens of

1150
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,920
interesting cases that probably

1151
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,319
uh deserve some explanation now my

1152
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,079
background in astronomy tells me that

1153
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:34,000
it's very unlikely that

1154
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,560
uh that an alien civilization is sending

1155
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,160
uh craft here

1156
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:41,200
um i'm quite quite aware of the uh

1157
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,560
psychosocial

1158
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,400
explanations um

1159
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:47,440
uh earth lights phenomena um

1160
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,119
uh i i i i've read about the various

1161
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:53,200
interdimensional time travel theories

1162
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:54,880
and so forth

1163
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:57,760
the scientist in me says nah

1164
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:02,000
but the same time we simply don't know

1165
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,480
and it's actually scientific to simply

1166
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:06,839
shrug our shoulders and say we're not

1167
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:10,079
sure uh what this may represent the

1168
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:12,240
possibility is there that there are

1169
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:13,839
aliens out there

1170
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,960
um it's also possible that

1171
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:18,960
somewhere um

1172
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,800
in our galaxy

1173
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:22,640
an extraterrestrial civilization has

1174
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:23,760
developed

1175
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,880
uh ways of traveling through space in a

1176
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:28,560
way that we don't understand yet not

1177
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:31,040
breaking the laws of physics

1178
00:44:35,829 --> 00:44:33,280
but bending them in some way

1179
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,839
that we don't understand

1180
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:37,920
but we don't have any evidence of how

1181
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,960
that's possible we don't have any proof

1182
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,200
so we don't have proof that aliens are

1183
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,599
here the sightings of witnesses by

1184
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:47,520
themselves

1185
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:51,520
are simply not enough and we maybe have

1186
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:53,920
to be the ultimate doubting thomases and

1187
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,400
i'm perfectly willing to put my hand in

1188
00:45:02,069 --> 00:44:58,400
the side of

1189
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:03,430
what always gives me hope in that

1190
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,440
respect chris that especially when

1191
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:07,119
people ask me about well why were these

1192
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:08,720
things becoming potentially great

1193
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,640
distances if they're not from different

1194
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,480
realities dimensions all those sorts of

1195
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,400
possibilities why would they be coming

1196
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:17,040
here and i was you as well right now as

1197
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:18,880
advanced as we are technologically we'll

1198
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,040
be incredibly

1199
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,040
far further down the line in 100 years

1200
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:25,440
200 years but right now that one of the

1201
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,520
peaks of our technological you know

1202
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,040
achievements has been we've got our

1203
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,680
little robot on mars that runs around

1204
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:33,040
every so often going a very short

1205
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:34,640
distance and it's got a little

1206
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:36,319
helicopter on it that every so often

1207
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:38,560
flies up and goes 10 feet and then comes

1208
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,440
back and collects samples and data which

1209
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,440
if you were on mars and i'm not saying

1210
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:44,960
there are people on mars but if you were

1211
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,640
there witnessing that that would look

1212
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,319
crazy it would make no sense so you

1213
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,760
would probably think why would some

1214
00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:52,319
advanced species send a robot here with

1215
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,800
another little robot on top of it and if

1216
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,440
someone had 500 years or a thousand

1217
00:46:01,829 --> 00:46:00,079
years head start on us as a civilization

1218
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,839
it's not a great leap to think what

1219
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,359
would their drones look like what would

1220
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:05,599
their rovers look like and would they be

1221
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:07,839
tic tacs and cigars and triangles flying

1222
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:10,000
about in our skies and oceans so that

1223
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:11,119
always gives me a little bit of hope

1224
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,640
when i when i think of that potentially

1225
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:14,000
and those great distances that might be

1226
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:15,599
getting traversed

1227
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,960
absolutely and i think it's very

1228
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,040
possible um

1229
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:20,880
and you know we we might not even be

1230
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:23,839
able to recognize uh a visit from an

1231
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:26,640
alien uh it's it's certainly possible

1232
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,560
but what we can say is that so far with

1233
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:30,400
our understanding of

1234
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,720
uh physics and biology and and uh uh our

1235
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:36,880
understanding of

1236
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,400
um

1237
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,040
observational techniques and and uh

1238
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:43,280
observational capabilities of humans and

1239
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,680
their interpretations that are affected

1240
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:47,520
by biases and psychological and

1241
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:48,960
psychosocial

1242
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:52,000
uh factors we simply don't have uh

1243
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,839
enough to say it's definitely happening

1244
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:55,839
but hey you know we live in the stephen

1245
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,400
spielberg of the james cameron universe

1246
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:00,240
and uh

1247
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,440
we expect that aliens are out there uh

1248
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,800
in fact i think most people will be

1249
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:06,960
disappointed if they aren't

1250
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,800
people sometimes point to the drake

1251
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:10,880
equation which calculates

1252
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:13,280
uh how many alien civilizations there

1253
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,640
might be in our

1254
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,720
uh our galaxy

1255
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:18,960
and uh depending on what

1256
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,640
numbers you plug into the equation you

1257
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:22,400
either get that there are

1258
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:24,880
tens of thousands of alien civilizations

1259
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:27,200
out there just waiting to contact us

1260
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:28,000
or

1261
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:29,599
none whatsoever

1262
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:30,880
and uh

1263
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,960
uh the limiting factor is something

1264
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,440
called the lifetime of a civilization if

1265
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:38,240
there are civilizations out there what

1266
00:47:42,309 --> 00:47:40,720
happens to them how come we don't see

1267
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:42,319
any evidence of them

1268
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:44,240
well it's very possible that after a

1269
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:47,920
certain period of development something

1270
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:50,560
happens to the civilization that perhaps

1271
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:52,880
stops them from developing further

1272
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,230
yeah we're not on the cusp of anything

1273
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,160
hopefully in that sense do you know what

1274
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,680
i'm actually disappointed in myself

1275
00:48:06,069 --> 00:48:04,319
chris i've left off a question given

1276
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,079
your background and given what's

1277
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,440
happening at the minute in terms of

1278
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:10,000
astronomy the the james webb telescope

1279
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,240
is isn't too far off of being fully

1280
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:14,319
functional what are your hopes for the

1281
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:16,240
the james webb and what that can achieve

1282
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:17,359
and what are we going to see in those

1283
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:19,040
early days

1284
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:21,920
yeah it's it's really quite something um

1285
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,680
and of course it's designed to look very

1286
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,440
very far it's not designed to look you

1287
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,599
know for the you know remnants of the

1288
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:29,680
big bang and so forth but for something

1289
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:31,520
a little bit closer to us

1290
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:35,200
uh you know just uh being shielded from

1291
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:37,599
the earth's radiation is is going to be

1292
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,079
enough to be able to resolve things very

1293
00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:42,160
much better

1294
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:48,150
um uh

1295
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:49,760
planets around

1296
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:51,680
stars that are relatively close to us

1297
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:55,040
and be able to uh you know to detect uh

1298
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:56,960
using some various instruments uh some

1299
00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,839
of the spectrometry involved of of the

1300
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:01,680
atmospheres of some of these distant

1301
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:03,599
planets and that's really quite exciting

1302
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,000
because we might be able to

1303
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:08,400
uh to verify that uh you know some

1304
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:09,440
nearby

1305
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,720
uh stars have planets that could support

1306
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:15,119
life and maybe are supporting life and

1307
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:17,119
that's actually quite exciting uh

1308
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,720
um

1309
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,720
you know speaking of uh james cameron

1310
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:22,079
the next uh

1311
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:25,200
uh movies in his series um

1312
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,480
uh

1313
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,160
what are the ones about the blue skinned

1314
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:34,230
avatar yeah two and three are coming out

1315
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,880
and avatar takes place

1316
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:39,599
on a moon surrounding that's orbiting a

1317
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:40,800
planet

1318
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,359
uh near proxima censure

1319
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:45,119
and you know it's very possible that

1320
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,359
such a planet and such a moon may

1321
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:49,760
actually exist so it could be that james

1322
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:51,760
cameron has effectively predicted what

1323
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:54,079
the james webb telescope is going to

1324
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:59,109
i wasn't a fan of the avatar movie so

1325
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:01,359
hopefully the the advancements and the

1326
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,960
achievements of the james webb are more

1327
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:04,800
exciting than that

1328
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:06,319
i wasn't a fan

1329
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,680
um listen let's go on to listener

1330
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:09,359
questions in the time we have less chris

1331
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:12,640
uh first up gnosis asks is chris aware

1332
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,319
of any canadian sightings where the

1333
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,240
witness was later visited by government

1334
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:18,960
officials if so is there any indication

1335
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:21,680
they were u.s or canadian officials or a

1336
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:24,559
combination of the two working together

1337
00:50:28,910 --> 00:50:26,559
yeah there's quite a few cases like that

1338
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,920
um i know that the falcon lake case of

1339
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,559
1967

1340
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,559
uh the witnesses were interrogated by

1341
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,640
the royal canadian air force uh and the

1342
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,640
royal canadian mounted police and

1343
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:38,000
actually the united states air force

1344
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:39,119
sent uh

1345
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,480
up somebody

1346
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:42,960
from the condon committee to

1347
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,760
to interview the witnesses as well

1348
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:47,119
[Music]

1349
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:49,280
so over the years there have been

1350
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:52,319
instances like that in recent times not

1351
00:50:56,549 --> 00:50:53,599
that i've heard

1352
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:56,559
uh in fact it does seem like the uh

1353
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,119
the government has sort of uh left the

1354
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,800
actual investigation

1355
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,640
to uh civilians however as i mentioned

1356
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:03,839
the royal canadian amount of police

1357
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:07,520
investigated ufo cases up until 1995.

1358
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,349
next up was gene gene asks does chris

1359
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,280
know how closely canadian officials

1360
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,440
coordinate or cooperate with the

1361
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:21,599
americans on the subject especially with

1362
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:23,760
norad

1363
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:25,839
well we alluded to this earlier that

1364
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:26,559
yeah

1365
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:28,160
canada united states are partners in

1366
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,599
norad

1367
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,200
and i think there's absolutely no

1368
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:33,359
question that

1369
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,520
there is some some coordination in fact

1370
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,440
a lot of the ufo reports

1371
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:39,440
uh that you can see through the national

1372
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:41,440
research council even more recently

1373
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,960
there's usually a note that says this

1374
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:45,599
was sent to norad in fact in the ca uh

1375
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:48,000
the uh the ones from transport canada

1376
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,119
that were made public uh from the the

1377
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,680
set that daniel lotus got through vice

1378
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,160
or for vice

1379
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,640
there's a lot of references to norad was

1380
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:00,960
being advised of this particular case or

1381
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:03,280
that particular case so i think there is

1382
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:09,670
and from gary how does a person become a

1383
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:12,400
ufo researcher either off their own back

1384
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,720
or within a governmental department

1385
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:16,640
he's unsure which you fall into i think

1386
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:18,480
it would be off your own back definitely

1387
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:21,119
from a starting point of view um he gets

1388
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,960
the hobby first but the second how do

1389
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:24,800
you go into the civil service and then

1390
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,119
ufo researcher becomes potentially

1391
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:29,359
full-time employment

1392
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:30,720
yeah you know in terms of full-time

1393
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:33,280
employment i'm not full-time employed

1394
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:35,359
investigating ufos i'd like to be the

1395
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:36,880
only person i think who actually was

1396
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,240
full-time employed

1397
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:40,240
investigating ufos was stan friedman he

1398
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:41,920
made his living

1399
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:43,599
going to conferences and speaking about

1400
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:44,480
them

1401
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:45,680
[Music]

1402
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:48,240
even alan heineck um you know even

1403
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:49,680
though he's employed by the united

1404
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:51,520
states air force uh on the various

1405
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:54,720
projects he was an astronomer in fact i

1406
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:57,359
used his textbook uh in astronomy in my

1407
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:58,480
first year of

1408
00:53:01,510 --> 00:53:00,640
my astronomy education

1409
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:01,520
um

1410
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,040
so he he you know primarily uh uh had a

1411
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:07,119
day job just like everybody else i would

1412
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,480
recommend if somebody wants to get into

1413
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:10,319
ufology do your reading do your

1414
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:13,760
background reading and i don't mean

1415
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,240
facebook and youtube i'm i'm talking you

1416
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:18,160
know do the research

1417
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:20,720
on what's going on what has happened

1418
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:24,079
before i i've run into people and talk

1419
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:25,599
with them all the time who are new to

1420
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,200
ufology who have not read anything by

1421
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:31,440
you know some of the classics uh of the

1422
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:33,200
field nothing by jenny randalls nothing

1423
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:35,280
by coral and jim lorenzen they haven't

1424
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:36,079
read

1425
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:37,200
um

1426
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:43,760
nothing by uh james by uh ellen heineck

1427
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:46,400
so i think you have to do your uh your

1428
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:48,800
research if you're going to any field

1429
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:51,440
you'd have to do a historical study

1430
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:52,720
regardless of whether you're going into

1431
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:55,839
biology or sociology or

1432
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,920
ufology

1433
00:54:02,150 --> 00:53:59,680
and then i would suggest you know

1434
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:02,160
getting a job that you enjoy

1435
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:03,040
but

1436
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:05,280
one that gives you the freedom to pursue

1437
00:54:08,829 --> 00:54:06,880
your hobbies

1438
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:08,839
in the evenings or on

1439
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:11,200
weekends and uh

1440
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:13,280
you know talk with like-minded people uh

1441
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:15,040
go to conferences and

1442
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:17,440
and so forth i think it's important to

1443
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,349
next up from curious doc regarding the

1444
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:27,359
first people indigenous communities in

1445
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,680
canada have you found any compelling

1446
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,920
overlap with their tradition in folklore

1447
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:33,839
or their more recent account in any

1448
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,400
recent institutional scientific data or

1449
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,200
reports you've seen

1450
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:41,520
well you know as i would say with on any

1451
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:42,800
continent

1452
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,160
the indigenous connection to ufos exists

1453
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:48,160
in some way

1454
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:49,839
and i

1455
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,599
um two seasons of a program called

1456
00:55:00,790 --> 00:54:58,240
indians and aliens not my title

1457
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:00,800
um india and aliens produced by uh the

1458
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,720
aboriginal television network

1459
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:04,720
uh here in canada

1460
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:06,800
uh which um

1461
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:09,599
uh delved into uh ufo sightings and

1462
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,559
experiences by indigenous people uh in

1463
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:13,680
quebec

1464
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:15,440
and then later in the second season uh

1465
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,720
elsewhere

1466
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,240
in canada

1467
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:19,440
um

1468
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:22,319
and uh it was interesting to you know

1469
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,839
meld the two uh uh traditions uh uh so

1470
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,240
that we better understood what people

1471
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:30,319
were experiencing and i think there is a

1472
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,680
strong connection

1473
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:33,839
um and today one of the things we don't

1474
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:36,319
gather is the uh

1475
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:38,480
uh is the ethnicity or the heritage of

1476
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:42,079
people who are reporting ufos um

1477
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:43,599
uh and it's hard to say whether that

1478
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,520
would gather information but

1479
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,680
gather good information or not but we do

1480
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,440
know that we do get reports from all

1481
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:51,520
across canada including the far north

1482
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:52,319
where

1483
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:55,040
uh inuit uh people are

1484
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:57,920
reporting ufos uh we have reports from

1485
00:56:02,309 --> 00:56:00,559
uh first nations across canada uh so

1486
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:02,319
there's no question that uh

1487
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,920
that as witnesses and interpretations uh

1488
00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:07,680
follow from a lot of the ufo reports

1489
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:13,030
a question from a fellow canadian here

1490
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:15,280
ward um who in the canadian government

1491
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:17,760
is on our side so to speak do we have

1492
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,920
any local equivalence of a senator jill

1493
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:21,680
our brand who's obviously making some

1494
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,480
waves in the ufo community in the senate

1495
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,079
right now

1496
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:29,040
well quite recently uh

1497
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:30,880
a member of parliament named larry

1498
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:32,240
mcguire

1499
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:33,359
um

1500
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,359
uh he uh

1501
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,440
asked a question in a committee of the

1502
00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:39,839
senate oh no not the senate of the of

1503
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:41,839
the parliament parliamentary

1504
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:44,799
parliamentary committee itself

1505
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:47,280
on natural resources

1506
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,240
asking about uap that were seen over

1507
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:52,720
nuclear installations in canada

1508
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:56,079
he had actually contacted me

1509
00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:58,559
a year or more ago

1510
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:01,599
uh for uh to give him a briefing on my

1511
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:03,280
ufo research

1512
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:04,160
uh

1513
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,240
subject and now that he's gone public

1514
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:10,720
with this request

1515
00:57:14,870 --> 00:57:13,280
there is a standing request for

1516
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:14,880
information that he was requested of the

1517
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:17,200
deputy minister for natural resources

1518
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:19,839
about the actions and any investigations

1519
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:20,640
of

1520
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:22,240
uh uap

1521
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:25,119
uh in canada uh now the canadian ufo

1522
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:26,960
survey because i mentioned we have 23

1523
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,319
000 cases

1524
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:30,079
we can actually pinpoint according to

1525
00:57:34,549 --> 00:57:32,000
the geographical locations

1526
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:34,559
uh where some of the ufo reports are

1527
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,440
from

1528
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,200
and i think

1529
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:39,599
from one nuclear institution alone

1530
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:42,240
simply by the location

1531
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:44,960
we have something like 50 just for one

1532
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,920
uh nuclear instrument installation now

1533
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:50,400
whether that means that the ufos were

1534
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,839
interested in that installation are

1535
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:53,760
simply because that's the nearest

1536
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:56,000
geographical location where ufo was

1537
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:57,040
reported

1538
00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:58,400
you know that's something that has to be

1539
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,440
determined

1540
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:00,720
but uh

1541
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,960
certainly larry maguire is one who has

1542
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:04,400
come forward

1543
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:07,680
certainly ufos have been brought up

1544
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:10,319
in the canadian parliament a number of

1545
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:11,839
times

1546
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,799
um and uh it remains to be seen whether

1547
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:16,240
anything comes of larry mcguire's

1548
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:20,950
excellent interesting one to keep an eye

1549
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,680
on um kevin brackley asks we know the

1550
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:25,680
canadian military and nav canada have

1551
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:28,480
been collecting ufo reports for decades

1552
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:30,799
what do you what do you think they think

1553
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,359
about ufos do they see them as a threat

1554
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,599
an interest or an anomaly to be noted

1555
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:37,920
and then ignored

1556
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:40,000
i think

1557
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:40,880
they're

1558
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:43,440
decidedly disinterested and probably

1559
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:46,400
annoyed at the paperwork that ufos and

1560
00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:52,150
i i get the i've got the impression that

1561
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,599
they're not all that interested i mean

1562
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:55,680
why else would they you know pass along

1563
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,559
ufo reports to a civilian

1564
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:00,480
um

1565
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:02,960
but i think the fact that more and more

1566
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:04,640
pilots are reporting and pilots have

1567
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,280
always reported ufo reports uh

1568
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:09,200
pilot their ufo sightings we have many

1569
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,440
many cases on file but i think the fact

1570
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:12,720
that there is there seems to be an

1571
00:59:17,829 --> 00:59:15,119
awareness now and a push for more and

1572
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:17,839
more uh pilots to report them even

1573
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,839
though the number of pilot reports seems

1574
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:21,520
to be going down

1575
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:23,520
uh right now in canada

1576
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,480
um i think that there's a concerted

1577
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:29,119
interest in keeping more track of this

1578
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:31,920
whether it's a matter of defense

1579
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:34,480
airline safety and security or something

1580
00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:36,400
else i'm not sure but i think that

1581
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:37,599
overall

1582
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,079
that the government has been generally

1583
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:42,079
uninterested which is quite interesting

1584
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:46,710
i'm going to finish off with a couple of

1585
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:48,240
listener questions from long-time

1586
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:50,880
listener dave smatherst um he says given

1587
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,680
that the us and canada jointly run norad

1588
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,680
have you had any indication the canadian

1589
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:57,359
government is aware of the regular

1590
01:00:02,230 --> 00:59:59,839
incursions from space objects seemingly

1591
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,240
under intelligent control that credible

1592
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,400
retired us military sources report

1593
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,640
having observed on a daily basis

1594
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:08,400
do you think if these were happening as

1595
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:09,920
reported the canadian government or

1596
01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:13,200
military would be aware of it

1597
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:16,880
i think that incursions are

1598
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:19,839
part of everyday life um in the canadian

1599
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,040
military

1600
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:23,520
um and i doubt whether

1601
01:00:27,670 --> 01:00:26,079
there are a lot of incursions that

1602
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:27,680
that fall under the category of what

1603
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,559
most people think are uaps

1604
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:32,799
there are regular flights and incursions

1605
01:00:36,789 --> 01:00:33,839
by

1606
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:36,799
um foreign powers into canadian and

1607
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:38,799
north and north american airspace all

1608
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:40,160
the time and they're acted upon

1609
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:41,520
immediately

1610
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:43,680
in fact you can do a literature search

1611
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:44,960
of uh

1612
01:00:53,789 --> 01:00:52,000
a report of incidents where

1613
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:53,799
aircraft from other

1614
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:59,280
powers um fly into american airspace and

1615
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:01,040
north american jets from either canada

1616
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:04,720
united states intercept them immediately

1617
01:01:08,789 --> 01:01:07,359
those are very very common so the fact

1618
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:08,799
that there would be other incursions

1619
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,280
that aren't acted upon even in the case

1620
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:13,040
of you know that i think people talking

1621
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:15,200
about the nimitz where things were being

1622
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:17,040
seen for two weeks or more and nothing

1623
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:18,640
was being done about them

1624
01:01:24,789 --> 01:01:21,119
uh and there weren't any reports on file

1625
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:24,799
about them i find that hard to believe

1626
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:26,559
but there's no question that incursions

1627
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,559
of of actual aircraft

1628
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,319
are acted upon all the time and i think

1629
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:33,280
that if there were a uap flying in in

1630
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:35,119
canadian and north american airspace

1631
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:40,789
i want to ask you chris just in

1632
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:42,559
finishing up do you have any advice

1633
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:45,200
particularly for for canadians listening

1634
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:47,040
as to how they should report their own

1635
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,880
ufo sightings

1636
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:50,400
well that's a really good question i

1637
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:51,200
actually

1638
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:53,040
made a blog post about this where do you

1639
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:55,440
report your ufo

1640
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:57,680
and the problem is there really is no

1641
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:01,280
central way to report ufos right now

1642
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:03,520
in the united states for example i think

1643
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:05,440
some civilian organizations like mufon

1644
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:07,839
might be the only place to report some

1645
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,760
ufos there's lots of online places uh

1646
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,680
the national ufo reporting center united

1647
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:15,119
states uh

1648
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:16,079
uh

1649
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:20,799
report things there

1650
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:23,359
and in canada transport canada actually

1651
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:26,079
accepts ufo reports uh the faa the

1652
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:27,680
united states actually

1653
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:30,079
kind of accepts ufo reports but not as

1654
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:32,160
not as uh

1655
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:34,799
as easily as as transport canada the

1656
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:37,680
civilians can report uh i would say

1657
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:38,799
um

1658
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:41,680
certainly the

1659
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:44,000
uh canadian ufo survey accepts ufo

1660
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,720
reports we get ufo reports all the time

1661
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:48,240
people are reporting things on social

1662
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:51,280
media on facebook on on twitter

1663
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:53,680
uh on instagram and so forth i think we

1664
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:56,000
even had a tick tock ufo report the

1665
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:58,400
other day uh so there's many ways of

1666
01:03:01,109 --> 01:03:00,000
reporting it's very important to get the

1667
01:03:03,030 --> 01:03:01,119
data

1668
01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:03,040
and i will say that

1669
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:05,440
this data this with this massive ufo

1670
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:06,720
reports

1671
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:08,400
something is being done with them rest

1672
01:03:13,109 --> 01:03:09,520
assured

1673
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:15,029
almost all of my ufo

1674
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,880
sighting reports to the university of

1675
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,480
manitoba

1676
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:20,400
over the past number of years so i want

1677
01:03:23,530 --> 01:03:21,920
that data and information to be

1678
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:23,540
available

1679
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:24,720
[Music]

1680
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:25,760
there's a

1681
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:27,359
some

1682
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:30,480
embargoed and

1683
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:32,319
and uh that's

1684
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:34,960
under closed wraps and so forth that's

1685
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:36,960
not true there's no such

1686
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,480
embargo

1687
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:40,000
it's actually

1688
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:42,000
unrestricted the problem is we have this

1689
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,760
little thing called a pandemic maybe

1690
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:45,680
somebody hadn't noticed this

1691
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,400
that has actually closed down archives

1692
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,400
across canada and they actually haven't

1693
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:52,960
got around to doing much uh

1694
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:55,680
processing of this material

1695
01:04:01,589 --> 01:03:58,480
and you know even stanton friedman's uh

1696
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:01,599
files uh which were donated to the

1697
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:04,160
um provincial archives of new brunswick

1698
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:05,599
and are being administered by the

1699
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:08,160
university of new brunswick

1700
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:09,760
the archivists there have said it's

1701
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,880
going to take 15 years to properly

1702
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:14,240
process

1703
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:16,079
the friedman files and it may take at

1704
01:04:20,549 --> 01:04:18,400
least five to ten before anybody can

1705
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:20,559
really make head or tail of it a very

1706
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:23,200
massive uh of information

1707
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:25,440
my files were considerably less than

1708
01:04:27,670 --> 01:04:26,720
that

1709
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:27,680
but

1710
01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:30,079
it's uh you know there's a lot of work

1711
01:04:34,549 --> 01:04:31,760
that needs to be done about

1712
01:04:36,630 --> 01:04:34,559
uh you know processing uh funds like

1713
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:36,640
this so it's it's gonna take some effort

1714
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:38,720
but my my goal and i just i didn't just

1715
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:41,760
donate my ufo files you can see behind

1716
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:44,880
me so my bookcase most of those

1717
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:47,920
book shelves used to have books on them

1718
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:49,440
in fact you can't see the rest of my

1719
01:04:53,430 --> 01:04:51,039
office i have two or three thousand

1720
01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:53,440
books related to ufos and

1721
01:04:57,990 --> 01:04:55,440
and other phenomena that's all going to

1722
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,000
the university as well to make it

1723
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:00,240
make the subject uh you know easier to

1724
01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:02,640
research by uh serious researchers and

1725
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:05,280
at an academic level so it's the type of

1726
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:06,960
thing that's going to take some time but

1727
01:05:11,029 --> 01:05:08,720
the idea is to make this information

1728
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:11,039
readily accessible to the general public

1729
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:17,750
and uh you've got a book due out soon

1730
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,799
canada's ufo's declassified when can we

1731
01:05:24,789 --> 01:05:22,480
expect that and what can listeners

1732
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:24,799
expect from it as well

1733
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:25,760
um

1734
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:28,559
what i've done for this most recent book

1735
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:31,520
uh canada's ufo's declassified is uh

1736
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:32,799
analyze

1737
01:05:37,829 --> 01:05:35,760
the uh the thousands of cases that are

1738
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:37,839
in the national library of canada from

1739
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:39,440
the national research council and the

1740
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,319
royal canadian air force

1741
01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:44,160
reported often by

1742
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:46,799
air force officers and police themselves

1743
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:49,599
and look at the most interesting cases

1744
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:50,559
for

1745
01:05:53,430 --> 01:05:51,359
you know

1746
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:53,440
some insight into what people were

1747
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:56,000
really seeing and reporting in canada

1748
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:57,599
and looking at the official record you

1749
01:06:01,829 --> 01:05:59,359
get a different perspective than what

1750
01:06:03,589 --> 01:06:01,839
you get from a lot of the sensational

1751
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,599
tabloid stuff and yet there's some

1752
01:06:09,829 --> 01:06:05,760
sensational cases in there cases where

1753
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:09,839
for example a rcmp officer

1754
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:12,640
was driving uh

1755
01:06:16,870 --> 01:06:15,440
through a on a rainy night and a disc

1756
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:16,880
shaped object

1757
01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,280
flew over his his vehicle

1758
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:21,680
um and caused quite a fright and uh he

1759
01:06:25,109 --> 01:06:23,119
reported a dually to the national

1760
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:25,119
research council and this was somebody

1761
01:06:28,950 --> 01:06:26,960
who's a lot of experience uh his

1762
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:28,960
reputation was on uh

1763
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:31,440
on the line and yet he you know stood by

1764
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:33,680
what he had seen and made an official

1765
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,079
report so we get cases like that in the

1766
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,160
files and when you look at those cases

1767
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:39,920
you think there's something to this and

1768
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,400
it's worthwhile taking a a closer look

1769
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:44,400
as i understand it the book is uh going

1770
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:47,760
to be coming out this spring uh and uh

1771
01:06:51,829 --> 01:06:49,359
hopefully people get some insight into

1772
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,839
what uh what's been happening in canada

1773
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:53,599
but it's even though it's sort of

1774
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:55,920
parochial in canada there's gonna be

1775
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:57,839
stuff in there that uh

1776
01:07:02,309 --> 01:06:59,920
uh you've never heard of before and that

1777
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:02,319
will give you some perspective for uh

1778
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:03,440
other countries around the world

1779
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,510
look forward to the book coming out and

1780
01:07:13,109 --> 01:07:11,280
chris how can listeners follow you and

1781
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:13,119
your work

1782
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:15,680
well i'm uh certainly on facebook and

1783
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:18,240
you look me up on facebook i'm also

1784
01:07:23,109 --> 01:07:21,119
um one of the admins for the facebook

1785
01:07:25,589 --> 01:07:23,119
group ufo updates which was the

1786
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:25,599
continuation of the uh

1787
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:27,920
the original chat room than discussion

1788
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:30,640
group going back literally decades

1789
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,559
started by errol bruce knapp quite some

1790
01:07:37,349 --> 01:07:34,720
time ago

1791
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:37,359
and i'm also uh and i'm in for a few

1792
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:40,160
other ufo groups i'm also on twitter

1793
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:42,640
and instagram at ufology research and i

1794
01:07:48,349 --> 01:07:46,319
have blogs uh about uh about my ufo

1795
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,359
research uh

1796
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:50,400
youforum.blogspot.com will get you to uh

1797
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:56,150
i'll put all of those links in the

1798
01:07:59,430 --> 01:07:58,079
description for the podcast as well and

1799
01:08:01,029 --> 01:07:59,440
of course chris look forward to the book

1800
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:01,039
coming out in the coming months it's

1801
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:02,319
been great speaking with you and look

1802
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:03,680
forward to hosting you again sometime

1803
01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:04,880
down the line

1804
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:11,029
that is all for this week's show thank

1805
01:08:15,029 --> 01:08:12,960
you very much for listening please

1806
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:15,039
remember to leave the podcaster review

1807
01:08:19,990 --> 01:08:17,679
on your chosen platform you can like

1808
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:20,000
retweet and subscribe that would all be

1809
01:08:24,070 --> 01:08:21,839
very much appreciated the shows are

1810
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:24,080
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

1811
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:25,600
more and more you can sign up at

1812
01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:28,080
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

1813
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:30,799
podcast to access shows ad free as well

1814
01:08:35,829 --> 01:08:32,960
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1815
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:35,839
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1816
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:39,520
twitter it's at ufo uap am and again

1817
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:41,440
folks as always keep looking up you

1818
01:09:04,630 --> 01:08:44,170
never know what you might see

1819
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:11,280
is

1820
01:09:11,290 --> 01:09:20,229
[Music]

1821
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:21,749
i can't imagine how it could have been

1822
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:23,359
any better i got to the top of the

1823
01:09:33,930 --> 01:09:41,030
[Music]

1824
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:42,309
there was something on my head and

1825
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,340
was a everything

1826
01:09:50,350 --> 01:10:10,310
[Music]

1827
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:15,100
me

1828
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:19,430
[Music]

1829
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:28,770
for being serious

1830
01:10:28,780 --> 01:10:41,750
[Music]

1831
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:43,860
what's that

1832
01:10:51,669 --> 01:10:49,760
[Music]

1833
01:11:02,760 --> 01:10:51,679
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

1834
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:23,390
[Music]

1835
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:43,390
thank you thank you